specific ^tailed 
R: How does your experience as an anthropologist differ from your current 
work in history? 
Ottenberg: Well, I seem to be turning into a pseudo-art historian who is 
trying to learn about style and technique and so on. When I was an 
Interview recorded during working with were not literate. It was a very traditional society and I knew I 
anthropologist in Afikpo in the 1 950s and early 60s, most of the people I was 
Ottenberg's most recent visit to was writing more or less for a Western audience. I thought my stuff wouldn't 
Nsukka in 1994 anticipated the be read by people here but over the years this has turned out to be very 
exhibition of Seven Artists of incorrect because the literacy level went up and many have read my books 
the Nsukka School, The Poeticsand articles at the University of Nigeria and other places. There was a sense 
of Line w h i c h is nOW running of greater distance with my subject. Here I am trying to do a study of Nsukka 
( b e t w e e n O c t o b e r 2 2 , 1 9 9 / artists, a highly literate group who themselves write a great deal including 
a n a A p r i l 2 6 , 1 9 9 8 ) a t trie NO" poetry. They also can offer criticism to any article I write such as my paper 
tlOnal M u s e u m Of A f r i c a n A r t , at the Second International Symposium on Contemporary Nigerian Art in 
t h e S m i t h s o n i a n Institute, Lagos in 1993. The dialogue is very different, most of it is in English while 
\A/ashington D.C. before most of the dialogue was either in Igbo or pidgin English and that's 
a different experience. 
Interview by 
Chika Okeke 
I was never trained in European art and I was never trained in aesthetics. 
I think I have a pretty good eye for 
traditional art but I am trying to 
retrain myself to get an understanding 
on how to see contemporary 
art; I don't always succeed. I remember 
looking at a watercolour 
by Tayo Adenaike. After a long 
time I couldn't help but ask what it 
was about. He said, 'can't you see 
it is the face of a man with his 
glasses on?' As soon as he said that 
I saw it. So in a sense I am still 
learning to see. That's a handicap. 
The strength that I may be bringing 
to my work with Nsukka artists is a 
knowledge of traditional Igbo Culture. 
GR: How did you become interested 
in Afikpo as an anthropologist. 
Ottenberg: Originally I was a very rebellious student. So 
too was Phoebe, my wife at the time. We were students at the 
North-Western studying with the man who started the first 
African studies programme in the United States, Melville J. Simon Ottenberg 
African Quarterly 
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Vol. 2'No 2 GLENDORA <•*•
Herskovits, who had worked in Abomey in Dahomey. There was 
also William Bascom who was a well known Yoruba scholar - 
he worked in Ife on Ifa divination. Phoebe and I decided that 
since Herskovits had done his studies in the 1 930s we could do 
a restudy at Abomey. But Professor Herskovits didn't think that 
was a good idea. He was wise. Because he was very much 
involved in that study it would have been difficult to write 
anything that would be critical of his earlier work. William 
Bascom suggested we should work on the Igbo. So we decided 
to work on an Igbo area that had never been studied before. We 
chose the Ohafia area in December 1951. However, the 
Provincial Officer and the District Officer in the Ohafia area 
politely told us we could not go to Ohafia because of land wars, 
bad roads, and that the area was isolated. I then wired the D.O. 
in Afikpo, J D. Livingston-Booth who studied anthropology in 
Cambridge in a postgraduate colonial service course. Afikpo 
was in the northern part of that same sub-culture, although at the 
time it was in Ogoja Province. The D.O. wired back saying he 
would be glad to have us. He found us a place to live, and some 
field assistants. 
GR: At what point did you decide to go into contemporary 
Nigerian Art considering the fact that you have had a very 
successful and distinguished career as an anthropologist? 
Ottenberg: I must tell you first that at Northwestern, Herskovits 
and Bascom were very much interested in traditional African Art 
so I had interest too. In 1975 I published a book on Afikpo 
masquerade, and some related articles after that. My interest in 
contemporary art goes back to 1 952 when I bought two little 
watercolours by a man called Okiki who was painting in the 
dominant 'naive' style of the period. Then in the early 1960s in 
Lagos I bought things from Osogbo. When I came back in 1966 
I bought some other things from the Gong Gallery and from the 
Bronze Gallery, some sculptures of Idehen and Idubor. 
GR: But how and why did you decide to begin serious research 
in contemporary Nigerian art, away from anthropology? 
Ottenberg: A few years ago Roy Sieber, the doyen of African 
art history in Indiana University called me up from the National 
Museum of African Art in Washington D. C. He asked to know 
if I was interested in a one year fellowship at the Smithsonian 
Institution. I was retiring from the University so it didn't seem like 
a bad idea. He suggested I should consider a research on an 
aspect of contemporary African art. I was overwhelmed and 
very surprised because I didn't realise Roy was interested in 
contemporary art, although the Museum had had one exhibit of 
Sokari Douglas-Camp and one other very small exhibit. I 
thought about the prospect and then I sent in a very general 
proposal. Roy didn't like some of the authors I cited because he 
didn't like their work, but it went through and I was lucky to get 
what is referred to as Regent Fellowship which is an all- 
Smithsonian Fellowship. It is not given by any specific museum. 
So everything was set but I hadn't decided on where I wanted 
to work since I didn't commit myself to any particular area in the 
proposal. 
I came to Nsukka to receive an honorary degree - Doctor of 
Letters, in 1992. After the official ceremonies there was a 
private party in my honour and it was there that I met Obiora 
Udechukwu. I told him about my interest and he invited me to 
a meeting of the AKA Circle of Artists the very next day. The 
meeting was at Nsikak Essien's house and most of the members 
were in attendance. After our initial discussions I thought that 
was what I was looking for. I later talked with Udechukwu a bit, 
suggesting to him the possibility of drawing from the things I 
already knew rather than going to another part of Africa where 
I would be starting out afresh. 
GR: So you thought there was some kind of familiarity with your 
Afikpo experience considering that this too was somewhere 
East of the Niger? 
Ottenberg: I felt very much at home, and I still do. 
GR: Do you then think that your earlier work on Afikpo 
influenced your interest in Nsukka/Enugu artists while the 
coincidence of meeting Udechukwu, or even your coming to 
Nsukka for the honorary degree were a catalyst that heightened 
the deep interest in the area? You still could have done your 
research elsewhere in Africa in spite of the initial contacts with 
the Circle. 
Ottenberg: I was thinking of Zambia as one of the areas I 
could do my research. One of my former students, Karen 
Tranberg-Hansen who has been working in urban Zambia for 
some years, had given me names of some artists and some 
catalogues. I thought Zambia was a possibility too, but maybe 
I just got lazy. Maybe I decided on an area where I had some 
background information; where I knew the country pretty well, 
although I wasn't as intensely familiar with the Anambra State 
area as I am now. It made sense and when I came back the next 
fall, when I received a chieftaincy title from Afikpo, I spent some 
time here in Nsukka where I started to talk to some artists. Then 
I came in the spring of 1 993 for the International Symposium 
in Lagos, and again in the Fall, this year (1 994). The thing is sort 
of intensified and I am very content. I have had wonderful cooperation 
from everybody in terms of willingness to show their 
stuff; photographs, catalogues, xeroxed materials and original 
works. It's just been wonderful. 
GR: How similar is the research methodology of anthropology 
and that of art history from your experience? 
Ottenberg: They are basically the same in the way I take notes 
and conduct interviews. The subject is different but granted that 
African Quarterly 
on the Arts 
Vol. 2/No. 2 GLENDORA
I don't need interpreters now, I still have to take notes. What's 
different is the voluminous amount of publications available, 
including some very fine theses by students of the University of 
Nigeria. Now there is a lot more literature to cover. I am doing 
more history this time, although when I worked at Afikpo, I tried 
to trace things such as the very complicated kinship system and 
the matrilineal as well as patrilineal groupings. I tried to trace 
where some of the masquerades came from, but I was basically 
doing a study at one point in time. Here I feel you have to go back 
to Uche Okeke, the Zaria group. In fact I have to go back to the 
beginning of contemporary art in Nigeria. I am planning to write 
a largely historical thing that may be divided into periods in 
which the Nsukka artists have gone through certain development 
and changes. These changes will be put into the given 
social contexts. What did the artists do during the war period 
and what effect did the war have on the art before and after 
cessation of hostilities? Another important social landmark is the 
oil boom and one would want to find out the effect of its rise and 
decline on artists down in Nsukka, and to a large extent, 
Nigeria. 
GR: Have you seen what artists are producing elsewhere 
beyond the Nsukka-Enugu axis? 
Ottenberg: I haven't done too much of that. What I have been 
basically doing is whenever I come to Nigeria, I try to spend 
sometime.in Lagos. For instance after the International Symposium 
I spent over a week there and during that time I saw the 
Uche Okeke and Obiora Udechukwu retrospectives and I also 
saw an Ife art school exhibit, and a number of others. I later went 
up to Ife. I haven't been elsewhere in the country other than 
Enugu where I have talked to a number of artists, some of whom 
trained at Nsukka while some others who didn't, share some of 
the interest in Uli and Igbo designs. And then of course I have 
been reading catalogues and articles on art in other areas. I 
have some familiarity with Osogbo art because I have collected 
it. Nike Davies comes to the United States and I have bought 
things from her. I have some early Twins Seven-Seven. I have 
also talked to some artists at the Yaba College of Technology. 
GR: Let us talk about Osogbo, you said you collected some art 
from there in the early 1 960s? 
Ottenberg: Yes, for example some Ogundele and some 
Afolabi and a couple of early Twins Seven-Seven, before he 
even started numbering his prints. 
GR: At the time you collected those prints what was your 
interest? For what reasons did you collect them? 
Ottenberg: Well, I thought they were exciting. I didn't know 
what to do with them. As an anthropologist I was simply aware 
there was something new going on and it was visually attractive 
and suggested to me that creativity was taking some new forms. 
You've got to know that I am a collector too. I am a very 
African Quarterly 
on the Arts 
Vol. 2/No. 2 GLENDORA r.« 
am fascinated 
by the 
process of 
drawing from 
traditional Igbo 
design system 
but yet making 
very modern 
statements 
about political 
and social conditions 
in this 
country. I think 
it is a beautiful 
blend.
Exodus I (The Refugees), 1977 by Chike Aniakor, 
Ink on paper, 32.7 x 27.9 cm. 
African Quarterly 
on the Arts 
Vol 2/Hn 2
possessive person about material things. I have a lot of African 
masks. I have collected American-Indian art from around the 
Seattle area where I live, but that's more recent. The year my 
wife and I were in Ghana, 1 970-71, there was one contemporary 
Gallery in Accra where I bought things. 
I think there is a kind of curiosity coupled with the fact that my 
wife and I have no children so we have a little more to put into 
art. The 1 960s, I think, was the best period for Osogbo. A lot 
of it degenerated afterwards. I saw an exhibit last November 
at the National Museum, Lagos that was absolutely awful. 
GR: It's interesting that beyond Nigeria, Osogbo is the basis for 
any discussion of contemporary Nigerian art. One begins to 
wonder whether it is because of that element of the quaint, the 
exotic, that captures the interest of Western scholarship and 
patronage. 
Ottenberg: Much of Osogbo art has a fantasy quality to it and 
also has, I have to use the word because I am an anthropologist, 
a kind of 'primitivist' quality that fits into Western conceptions 
of what African art should be. This kind of art is attractive. There 
is an artist who does decorative coffins in the shape of Mercedes 
or aeroplane. Americans go gaga about him. The Africa 
Explores exhibit has these things. They are a kind of kitsch art 
which is attractive and fit Western conceptions of what art 
should be like. 
GR: Is it what art should be specifically for Africa or for the West 
and elsewhere? 
Ottenberg: I don't object to Osogbo. I am very ecumenical 
about art much more so than most people, perhaps because I 
am not an artist. For example there is a kind of genre of art in 
Nigeria which is sort of fairly naturalistic, fairly romanticised 
with beach scenes, durbars, drummers, masquerade, and all. 
A lot of it may not be technically superb but it appeals to a 
certain group of people. There is an American artist, Norman 
Rockwell who does that kind of thing. He has been very popular 
and he's done magazine covers for years for example. I call 
such art as I find here, 'the Norman Rockwell art of Nigeria.' It 
isn't great but that doesn't mean that you cannot do very fine 
scenes of a masquerade or durbar and so on, but much of this 
does not appeal to me. I can understand that it appeals to a 
certain kind of a people but with my own work which will 
culminate in an exhibit of about seven of the Nsukka artists, at 
the National Museum of African Art, Washington. D C , in 
1997, I am hoping to bring a different view of one aspect of 
Nigerian art. 
GR: Is it the aspect that appeals to you then? 
Ottenberg: I like the Nsukka style very much. I like the 
emphasis on uli. I am fascinated by nsibidi and other design 
systems. I am fascinated by the process of drawing from 
African Quarterly 
on Ihe Arts 
Vol 2/No. 2 GLE N DORA ..»< 
traditional Igbo design system but yet making very modern 
statements about political and social conditions in this country. 
I think it is a beautiful blend. In a sense, the Nsukka group is not 
a kind of nostalgic group that is just looking at the past, 
romanticising about it, and having some unconscious wish to 
return to the past as has occurred for example in early writing 
from South Africa when writers wrote novels about Chaka Zulu 
and the rest. Those were great stories but is as if there were some 
attempts to return to the past. I think the artists in the Nsukka area 
are very realistic, they are very grounded in the present and yet 
realistically they are saying 'we .lave this heritage and it's a rich 
one, let's draw from it.' 
GR: Edwin Debebs and others have argued that the world is 
tending toward a 'global community' and as such that art should 
be moving toward a post-modernist globalism. In this projected 
world art arena, any attempt by the African artist to draw from 
the past would be a kind of retrogressive atavism. Is there 
anything worthwhile about this nascent internationalism anyway? 
Ottenberg: I was at a conference in April (1994) on New 
International Art at the Tate Gallery. Olu Oguibe was there and 
he gave a paper. Bruce Onobrakpeya came from Nigeria. My 
impression from that conference is that the problems of artists 
living in Africa and those living in the West are somewhat 
different. There is a group of very fine artists including South 
African artists such as Gavin Jantjes who are struggling to live 
in Europe, struggling to get recognition, trying to contact other 
artists from the Third World. Their interest is in other Third World 
art and artists. Oguibe has been drawing from Mexican art after 
he visited Mexico. He's also been drawing from Australian 
Aboriginal material. He saw a Fante flag exhibit and now he 
draws from Fante Flag designs. It is a sort of internationalism 
where a Third World artist draws from the art of other Third 
World people. Some of the artists in Nsukka are drawing from 
other cultures too. Ndidi Dike for instance uses little brass 
figures. 
I have talked to Bruce Onobrakpeya about this and I think I am 
in agreement with him. His argument is you have to have a 
strong cultural base from which you're operating. From that 
base you can go out and either draw or refuse to draw from 
other cultures. You can take, mix styles, invent new ones, or reinvent 
old styles. But without a cultural base you're lost in a 
sense. It may be that some of the African artists in England or 
Europe and America are in danger of losing their cultural base 
like American artists in Paris such as Mary Cassatt in the 1 930s, 
or American writers for that matter who had Paris as a Mecca 
and who became sort of pseudo-French for a while, being very 
much influenced by French Literature. This attitude contrasts with 
that of a few like Hemingway who kept on writing in the typical 
American style.
Nigerian artists want more contact with the rest of the world and this 
is very difficult now because of the economic situation in the country. 
At the same time they are occupied with social and political 
conditions here. Too much internationalism tends to pull them away 
from that kind of thing. But I think Internationalism will increase. There 
is no doubt about it that the external influences are going to increase 
although I do not think it is leading to one world culture. I think the 
distinction will deepen absolutely. In fact in some cases they seem to 
be reinforcing rather than disappearing. 
GR: In spite of the vibrant developments in modern art in Nigeria 
which you reported in ACASA Newsletter, (1993) it is still disheartening 
that much of Western patronage and scholarship glosses over 
this fact with their insistence on the 'authentic' which refers to art 
forms that court the interest of the auction houses, collectors and 
gloss exhibition catalogues. There is this apparent reluctance by the 
West to recognise the existence of modern art in Africa. 
Ottenberg: Either they say it is derivative of Europe or they say it's 
sort of folksy with all those masquerades dancing around.... Anthropologists 
have not been that much interested in contemporary Third 
World art until recently and the interest has come rather indirectly 
through 'tourist', 'naive' or 'popular' art, the kind of thing Middle Art 
(Augustine Okoye) does. Such art is interesting. I love to see it and 
I have bought a couple of them but it does have some kind of kitschy 
quality to it. They are produced by artists who are not artists in a 
technical sense. 
Western art historians are terribly arrogant about the West. They are 
very Eurocentric and this is tied to an older view of evolution of human 
culture in which the modernist period in the West is the high point of 
this cultural evolution. These assumptions however are breaking 
down in the post-modernist period, the age of multiculturalism. 
GR: But the West parasitises on other cultures, making pastiches of 
the so-called Third World and other non-Western cultures while 
insisting on defining the resulting cultural melange in its own terms, 
its own paradigms. 
Ottenberg: There is a lot of writing going on in Europe. I was 
recently reading something that was written a few years ago, in 
Netherlands and I was surprised to hear the same arguments in 
England at the INIVA Conference, as well as in America. 
Multiculturalism which suggests that there is no one best culture is 
increasingly enhanced by tremendous migration, improved communication, 
the CNN phenomenon and the breaking down of nationstates 
because of multinational businesses. States are losing control 
of their economies and as all these things are going on, they suggest 
a loosening up - a much better situation for the 'Third' and 'Fourth 
World' who themselves are now making more demands and 
beginning to come together in large groups. But there's a sort of 
idealistic gloat over this multic'ulturalism. The fact is economic power 
still remains with Europe and America, and now Japan and China 
are coming up and that's going to be the decider on the direction 
ou can 
take, mix 
styles, invent 
new 
ones, or reinvent 
old 
styles. But 
without a 
cultural 
base you're 
lost in a 
sense. 
African Quarterly 
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Vol. 2Wo. 2 GLENDORA
of art and cultural discourses in the ultimate sense. I don't share the 
optimism that some of the people have. 
There are substantial shifts but they are coming very slowly. The 
National Museum of African Art in Washington D.C is now 
committed to doing things on contemporary art on a fairly regular 
basis. It's going to have an exhibit of some artists living in the United 
States. It may be easier to put such exhibits together, but it's more 
difficult for me to find pieces in Nigeria and make arrangements to 
get them to the United States and so on. 
In Europe, contemporary African art is better received in the 
continent than in England. I talked to the owner of Savannah Gallery 
in London, Leroi Coubagy sometime ago. I asked who buy from 
them and he said they are mostly Italians and Germans. I inquired 
about the British and Americans and he said the British practically 
never buy from them while only a few regular Americans visit the 
gallery. For the Nsukka group there is a strong, long history of 
relationship with Germany which goes back to the Nigerian Civil 
War when Uche Okeke had an exhibit of young artists from Biafra. 
Obiora Udechukwu, Tayo Adenaike and Tony Uwachukwu have 
shown in Germany and were well received. 
GR: So the contribution any scholar, African or outsider, can make 
to contemporary art from African would be to shift focus to the 
present unfolding art experience rather than this insistence on 
celebrating beyond logic the arts of pre-colonial Africa? 
Ottenberg: There's been a number of general exhibits that have 
covered contemporary African art, there was one in Paris, Magiciens 
de la terre in 1 989, there was Africa Hoy and there was primitivism 
in 20th Century Arf in 1 984. Africa Explores which Susan Vogel put 
up. All of these did things of a general nature. 
GR: But in these major exhibits you cited, there is always the 
temptation to show what you earlier described as kitschy art, take 
the constructions of Kane Kwei, the masks of Sossom and the 
paintings of Cheri Samba in Magiciens, and Africa Explores for 
instance. 
Ottenberg: Sure, imagine an art exhibit having the little, Magicians 
of the earth! These artists are identified first as magicians, 
conjurors, not as artists. Why weren't they 'artists of the earth'? 
GR: What we are seeing"is probably a remnant of the stereotypical 
but now generally faulted image of the African artist as ritualist, a 
religious image maker. 
Ottenberg: It's undergoing a transition. There was this Dutch 
symposium that I was reading about. The big question was, 
'where do you show Contemporary Third World Art?' Do you show 
it in an ethnological, or an art museum? There was a tremendous 
argument but the final conclusion was that it was all right to show in 
both in so far as the little differences are shown, rn the anthropology 
museum, the exhibit may show a little more cultural background 
African Quarterly 
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GLENDORA ...» Vol. 2/No. 2 
have also 
talked to 
Emmanuel Ulasi 
who at New 
Bethel College, 
Onitsha helped 
stimulate interest 
in art. There 
is a whole generation 
of teachers 
who helped 
present distinguished 
Nigerian 
artists to get 
their stimulus in 
art. What's been 
written about 
them? Very little.
Road to Abuja, 1983 by Obiora Udechukwu. 
Pen and ink on paper, 50.9x38 cm. 
African Quarterly 
on the Arts 
Vol. 2/No. 2
material, while in the art museum, aesthetics and styles are 
emphasised. But look, to me what is needed is what I am trying 
to do. We've had enough general exhibits. We now need 
specific, detailed scholarly studies of groups of artists or of 
single artists and their works. We need to take individual artists 
or a group to show the kinds of stylistic changes or changes in 
images that they have gone through over time. We need to do 
that kind of basic work. T-here are very few detailed studies of 
contemporary art. There's a lot of literature, but most of these are 
very thin. You even see it in Jean Kennedy's book which I admire 
very much because she has pulled together a lot of data, even 
if a lot of it are surface studies. There are good descriptions there 
but not much analysis. It is a very good reference work. But I am 
not saying all these because I am an anthropologist. Nor am I 
suggesting anthropologists are the ones to do this kind of work. 
Art historians, artists themselves who are interested should be 
very much involved in the type of studies I am talking about 
because each one has certain skills the other lacks. I lack a 
thorough knowledge of European art history and it hampers my 
work. I lack knowledge of painting techniques and all of that. 
GR: And this blocks your analytical sensitivities? 
Ottenberg: I have to struggle with it. I am trying not to block 
myself. I read very carefully what others say about style and 
technique and then I try to understand the language of analysis. 
On the other hand people in art history may lack some of the 
sensitivities and understanding of cultures and cultural processes 
that I have. 
GR: It is disheartening that we have our own art historians 
within, and several in America and elsewhere, yet we are not 
getting from them the kind of responses that you recommend. If 
they thought what you advocate is worthwhile, we probably 
would not need to have you engage in this project in spite of the 
odds, in spite of your handicaps. 
Ottenberg: I think it's coming. I have met some younger 
people, graduate students at the Smithsonian who are interested 
in doing some work on contemporary African art. 
GR: These young people, are they Africans? 
Ottenberg: Mainly Americans. 
GR: You see, one would prefer that they be Africans for the 
singular reason that they stand better chances of producing 
richer, more credible work. 
Ottenberg: Dele Jegede has written a few specific things 
about individual artists but I think he now intends to write a 
general book on contemporary Nigerian art which would be, 
presumably, a considerable growth out of his Ph.D thesis at 
Indiana. Ola Oloidi wrote about the period up to the 1960s but 
he never published it. He rather published most of it in series of 
articles scattered in journals. 
African Quarter])) 
on the Arts 
Vol. 2/No. 2 GLENDORA 
Ottenberg: Take Bruce Onobrakpeya. He is a perfect example 
of someone who right now while he is alive, while he is 
in his prime, somebody should be doing a study on. He is a very 
important artist not only in Nigeria and Africa, but in the world 
One gets articles occasionally on him yet the only indepth 
studies on Bruce Onobrakpeya are the ones he has written 
himself which is all right because his own interpretations are 
very useful, and the publications are very rich in visuals, but it 
will be better if someone else does that. You can take some of 
the senior artists, like Grillo and Akolo, where are the definitive 
works on them, or on Enwonwu? 
I would encourage African art historians who want to go into this 
because it's a rich and vast field. I have started to do some work 
on Nigerian teachers active in the '30s, '40s and '50s, who 
trained some of the prominent artists today. These include 
Rowland Ndefo, C.C. Ibeto and Jim Ibeto (the nephew of C.C 
Ibeto who died days after I had arranged with him for an 
interview). I have also talked to Emmanuel Ulasi who at New 
Bethel College, Onitsha helped stimulate interest in art. There is 
a whole generation of teachers who helped present distinguished 
Nigerian artists to get their stimulus in art. What's been 
written about them? Very little. Some of them studied with K.C. 
Murray and they learnt a certain style which is going out of date 
now, but they taught people like Obiora Udechukwu, Chike 
Aniakor and others. These teachers may not have initiated 
interest in art, in the artists but they helped sustain, stimulate and 
guide it. They are very important in the history of Nigerian art, 
but who is working on them other than students writing theses 
in the University of Nigeria? So if I could encourage people to 
do that kind of work, fine, I don't care whether it is art historians 
or anthropologists who do the work that should, and must be 
done. GR